thanks for the advice guys , i really appreciate it, i must admit i really like the viking espri so after some of your comments will investigate it further :lol: :lol: :lol: , it would be great if it worked, the lighter weight really appeals to my back , i think i would only need a standard seat back , as i have a sea air sport seat and back that i use on the seakayak and find it really good , also i cannot stay too long on the water , approx 2to 2and 1/2 hours sees me out , as my legs go numb, but thats o.k . , the biggest problem is lifting the heavier kayaks even though i have made a couple of trolleys , and they work well , there always seems to come a time when i have to lift, and thats why i am really keen on lighter kayaks , thanks very much for your help and advice , you are really a great bunch of fellows, and it is very obvious to me that to join this forum was a top idea, thanks guys