[Foxxy]

Hi all, looking for some tips; I've ended up with 20 litres or so of ultra bite liquid (was from an experiment at a commercial scale) and would like to attempt to turn it into a gel as you can buy in tackle stores so it sticks to lures. Note this is for personal use , not commercial sale! I'm not sure what the liquid was based in originally - looks like oil but has a low viscosity and doesn't smell much like oil. I use zman plastics and zerek shrimp and would like to avoid melting them.. Any suggestions?

 

[Foxxy]

Cool, I didn't know ultrabite sold a liquid spray. I just assumed that this stuff would wash straight off..

 

[HAWKEYE3]

Cornflour?

I wonder what evaporating off the liquid would do. Obviously this only works if the substance is in solution and the liquid evaporates at an achievable temperature.

An idea....................

Take a glass jar with a sealable lid.

Drill a small hole say 6 mm in the centre of the lid

Cut a piece of plastic sheet sufficient to cover the lid and tape it on 3 sides.

Place some ultrabite liquid in the jar and place the jar in the sun for several days.

The liquid should become warm and the resultant vapour can bleed off.

As the day cools the differential pressure out side to inside the jar should allow the plastic flap to seal the jar overnight until the sun warms it up the next day.

Mark the level of liquid on the outside of the jar at the start and the morning of each day to gauge the effectiveness of the process. When the differential levels show no further decrease then the liquid may be at its thickest before it will go hard.

Just a thought.

 

[anselmo]

The "gels" you buy are typically incomplete emulsions (a suspension of solids in a liquid that form a semi-permanent bond - usually heat dependent)
Whilst gelatine is an extreme example of an emulsion, it won't work in a form that will enable you to smear it as the binds are too strong - and require heat to form and destroy

I believe the commercial iterations of these types of products use an inert filler to mimic an emulsion
However, I'm guessing the heat limitations that Matt refers too may stop successful gelification in a homebrew capacity

Evaporation proabbaly won't workl as there wouldn't be an inert filler of any quantity
you're more likely to find the actual pheromone itself is what is evaporating

Spray bottle is probably your best bet

 

[anselmo]

The "gels" you buy are typically incomplete emulsions (a suspension of solids in a liquid that form a semi-permanent bond - usually heat dependent)
Whilst gelatine is an extreme example of an emulsion, it won't work in a form that will enable you to smear it as the binds are too strong - and require heat to form and destroy

I believe the commercial iterations of these types of products use an inert filler to mimic an emulsion
However, I'm guessing the heat limitations that Matt refers too may stop successful gelification in a homebrew capacity

Evaporation proabbaly won't workl as there wouldn't be an inert filler of any quantity
you're more likely to find the actual pheromone itself is what is evaporating

Spray bottle is probably your best bet

Cheers for this Nick.. i think the application i found was moreso used as a berley addition to groundbait so what you say makes total sense. Thank god i threw that disclaimer in. :lol:

;-)

I'm guessing that heat is part of how they make/extract the product initally, so the gel format is made as a by-product of producing it initally, rather than making it, then adding it to a gel based formula

 

[Foxxy]

Well, if it's an emulsion (and assuming the pheromone is water based), maybe I should just get some palm oil, heat is and find an emulsifier ... Thoughts? What emulsifier other than egg yolk can u think of? Happy to provide some ultrabite as a lure for good ideas!

 

[anselmo]

Well, if it's an emulsion (and assuming the pheromone is water based), maybe I should just get some palm oil, heat is and find an emulsifier ... Thoughts? What emulsifier other than egg yolk can u think of? Happy to provide some ultrabite as a lure for good ideas!

egg albumen (white), not egg yolk
you want something that "gels" but adds no flavour of its own
also something thats stable over time and in a varierty of envirnmental conditions

maybe lecithin, xanthan gum, guar gum or locust bean gum?

http://www.souschef.co.uk/ingredients/modernist-and-molecular.html

Soya lecithin is an emulsifier extracted from soybean oil. It occurs naturally in egg yolks, so acts as a replacement in recipes which need thickening, or where oils and water need emulsifying. Soy lecithin also stabilizes foams created by beating air into flavoured juices or purees.

Directly dissolve into liquids - a ratio of 6g of soy lecithin per litre creates stable foams. Use 1 to 5g per litre in biscuit making to help improve stability and shelf life.

Ingredients: Soya lecithin pure powder E322

Called "one of the best discoveries in food science since yeast" by Nathan Myrvold, author of Modernist Cuisine, Xanthan gum emulsifies and stabilizes.

It is especially useful in binding gluten-free doughs and cake mixtures which would otherwise crumble. A small pinch helps prevent the separation of vinegars and oils in salad dressings, and it also improves the rich, creamy texture of sauces and ice creams. It is a corn-based product which takes its name from the strain of bacteria used to ferment it in the process to turn it into a thickener.

Can also be used to make gels with other hydrocolloids - substances that form gels in the presence of water, which are extremely important in the of the 'Modernist' pantry.

Ingredients: Xanthan gum E415

Gum arabic or gum mastic is a natural product harvested from the hardened sap of African acacia trees. Gum arabic is used as a thickener, emulsifier, marzipan glaze and confectionery glue - using the same stickiness it gives the back of stamps for gluing sugar work. The sweet also appears in sweet Moroccan recipes, such as sesame-based sellou or chebakia.

Ingredients: Gum arabic E414

Locust bean gum occurs as a white to yellow-white powder. It consists chiefly of high-molecular-weight hydrocolloidal polysaccharides, composed of galactose and mannose units combined through glycosidic linkages, which may be described chemically as galactomannan. It is dispersible in either hot or cold water, forming a sol having a pH between 5.4 and 7.0, which may be converted to a gel by the addition of small amounts of sodium borate.

LBG is used as a thickening agent and gelling agent in food technology.

The bean, when made into powder, is sweet-with a flavor similar to chocolate-and is used to sweeten foods and as a chocolate substitute, although this carob powder is produced from the fruit pod after removal of seeds, while the gum is produced from the seeds themselves. It is also used in pet foods and inedible products such as mining products, paper making, and to thicken textiles. It is used in cosmetics and to enhance the flavor of cigarettes. Shoe polish and insecticides also have locust bean gum powder as an additive. It is soluble in hot water.

If it's water based you can make an emulsion out of oil (thats the whole point of colloids and emulsion - its a suspension, not a dissolvation)
you'd possibly need a neutral flavoured, stable oil - you'd need to google this
also that would just make a liquid emulsion (think milk - a colloid emulsion of fats, solids and water), not a gel
What you's really want is something more like the ingredients noted and quoted above to make a mayonnaise type emulsion

Finally, the assuption is that you DON'T want to heat it (I believe pheromones are very volatile)

you could try mixing it with vaseline (although usually to make a lure scent with this you have to heat the vaseline)
but you have 20 litres so you can spare some for experimentation purposes! :lol:

Calling dibs on a sample of any successful outcomes!

 

[anselmo]

Xanthan gum looksto be the best solution:

One of the most remarkable properties of xanthan gum is its ability to produce a large increase in the viscosity of a liquid by adding a very small quantity of gum, on the order of one percent. In most foods, it is used at 0.5%, and can be used in lower concentrations. The viscosity of xanthan gum solutions decreases with higher shear rates; this is called shear thinning or pseudoplasticity. This means that a product subjected to shear, whether from mixing, shaking or even chewing, will thin out, but once the shear forces are removed, the food will thicken back up. A practical use would be in salad dressing: the xanthan gum makes it thick enough at rest in the bottle to keep the mixture fairly homogeneous, but the shear forces generated by shaking and pouring thins it, so it can be easily poured. When it exits the bottle, the shear forces are removed and it thickens back up, so it clings to the salad. Unlike other gums, it is very stable under a wide range of temperatures and pH.

Super important capability
It's what the ink in your ball point pen does

 

[Foxxy]

Anselmo, awesome info. You are clearly in to your molecular gastronomy? I'll have a crack at the xanthin and emulsify with some fish oil with anti oxidant in it. Some ultrabite is all yours! I'll pm u.

U sure on the egg yolk bit though? I'm pretty sure this is how mayo is made

 

[anselmo]

Anselmo, awesome info. You are clearly in to your molecular gastronomy? I'll have a crack at the xanthin and emulsify with some fish oil with anti oxidant in it. Some ultrabite is all yours! I'll pm u.

U sure on the egg yolk bit though? I'm pretty sure this is how mayo is made

You're not making mayo though ...

I'd skip the fish oil too
Fish oil oxidises and will smell bad eventually
It may even negate any value you're getting from the ultrabite