[spooled1]

Does anyone know why yaks go totally sideways in the breakers and then straighten themselves out?

Here's an example:

Today had 3-4 foot dumping barrels
Before the waves break I steer along the face
As soon as the waves peak and engulf me the yak goes sideways.
I grab the rail, lean into the wash and (If I wasn't thrown off) the yak then quickly rights itself.

I've noticed that the steeper the face, the quicker the yak spins out.

 

[Peril]

I guess the yak turns sideways in the first place because the wave is rising so effectively moving faster than the water in front, so the stern moves faster than the bow.

Can't figure why it might straighten out though. Does the yak have any propensities in current?

 

[spooled1]

That makes sense Peril - cheers.
Also explains why it rights itself after...
The wave breaks, spins the yak sideways. As the wave moves forward the bow is rolls forward.

 

[troppo]

As Peril said. Basically, as the wave moves through the water, it is not the body of water that is rushing forward (that is, a boat at rest on waves only bobs up and down because the water is not actually going forward or back, only up and down with the wave energy). When waves come into a beach, the sea bed pushes up the wave so it starts to rise up and water topples forward.

So, when a wave overtakes a kayak going in to a beach the combination of wave action lifting up the stern plus the slope of the wave pushing forward imparts a huge 'kick in the pants' so to speak. But it is at the back of the kayak and not equally distributed along the kayak. If the water was all moving forward like a swiftly flowing stream, the front and back of the yak would have the same forces on it and it would go straight. But the water is not moving like this. At the front of the yak the water is basically still as it is not on the wave and at the back it is pushing forward like an express train. Get the nose to the side a bit and the back end will be trying to overtake it with the full force of the wave. The effect is akin to tromping the accelarator in a V8 car on loose gravel and turning the steering wheel to one side - it slides out.

As far as righting the yak when the wave is past, I don't know. In my case, once my yak has gone sideways, I go off and my yak, now unencumbered, shoots forward at high speed.

 

[bazzoo]

its no real bad deal to get a bit sideways on a wave , as long as you keep the rail of the yak that is in the wave down, and your paddel exerting a little down force on that side in the wave , if the beach side rail digs in , your over.The standard method of surfing on a ski , is to run across the face of the wave , and as soon as the wave looks like breaking , flick the ski or kayak over the top of the wave and go out for another , failing this , if you are not surfing and want to get in to the beach , get up some good speed across the face of the wave and when it starts to break streighten up the ski to run out the front of the broken water, the main thing is to be agressive , if your timid with it , your in

 

[sunshiner]

Hey, I'd love it if my yak straightened out after going sideways. I can stay upright OK after going sideways, by doing what bazzoo says and digging in on the wave side, but I've never had it straighten up again. Perhaps it would happen if the wave encountered deep water and hence lost its yak-propelling qualities. I posted a few pics a couple of weeks ago in Main entitled "Surfing Sunshine with the Espris" which you may find interesting.

 

[spooled1]

Hi Sunshiner -

Hey, I'd love it if my yak straightened out after going sideways

You should get a Scupper Pro ':wink:'':lol:'

 

[sunshiner]

You should get a Scupper Pro

Actually my first ever ocean trip was in a mate's Scupper Pro. He sold it after he bought a Swing. Now I remember -- the SP had a rudder. Maybe the rudder influences the yaw of the yak -- just being pushed sideways would tend to drag the stern. Is your rudder down when you surf? Espris don't have a rudder, but quite often I can go in without going sideways, but once sideways that's it, all the way in to the sand.

 

[bushwoodboy]

Rudder would definately help tracking. On a surfboard you either need fin in the water or rail edge to track or turn. Same as a body board will spin out if you don't sink a rail or use the flippers on your feet to help track or turn. Havn't tried the swing in the surf yet but imagine the same principles apply. When you lean the kayak into a turn on a wave the limited keel or v- hull is all you have to stop you spinning out unless you are using a rudder or paddle in the wave face to help you track. In Theory :lol: Let you know how it goes in practice when I get out there. Mal

 

[DGax65]

Now I remember -- the SP had a rudder. Maybe the rudder influences the yaw of the yak -- just being pushed sideways would tend to drag the stern. Is your rudder down when you surf?

I have rudders on all of my kayaks and I can attest to the affect that they have in the surf. My normal surf landing goes something like this: 1) sit outside the surf line and watch the sets come in, 2) realize that I never manage to read the surf properly and that I'm just wasting my time, 3) get tired of waiting and convince myself that the next set is small, 4) paddle like hell, 5) look back and realize that the biggest wave of the day is coming up behind me, 6)PADDLE LIKE HELL!, 7)when the stern starts lifting I lean back and into the wave, 8)accept my fate, 9A) surface and try to catch up with my yak before it hits a tourist in a rental kayak, OR 9B) continue paddling in on the foam while trying to make the tourists think I made that landing look really cool :lol:
Seriously; I have noticed a distinctive behavior of the rudder in the surf. I always make a straight in aproach. I've never tried running across the face of a wave (not intentionally, anyways). Having never done any surfing, I have no experience with this type of approach and my grossly overloaded yaks (OK Drifter and Malibu X-Factor) don't ride the waves all that well. I usually hold just outside the surf, let a wave give me some momentum, paddle like hell and try to beat the next one in. This rarely every works as planned and I have to deal with at least one wave catching up with me before I get to the shore. As I'm sprinting in, I use the rudder to steer and try to get as much power as possible into my paddle stroke. I'll keep rudder steering until the stern starts getting picked up. I've found that at this point I start to lose rudder authority. I'm pretty sure that this is the faster moving water of the wave pushing on the rudder. I used to try steering with the rudder through the wave, but I found that you reach a point where it has no effect or it is reversed. If you have the rudder hard over to correct for the yaw, at some point the wave starts pushing the rudder from behind. I've notice a very distinct point where you feel the rudder going from counteracting the yaw to actually increasing it. After a couple of landings where I was stomping on the rudder pedal to no effect, I learned my lesson. Now I steer with the rudder until the stern starts to come up, then I center the rudder and control by leaning the rail into the wave and bracing. Much more effective. I have also noticed that my bow will come back around as the wave passes under. My yak is usually in one of two conditions after the wave passes; unmanned or still heading straight in. If I don't get dumped, I'm still paddling like hell. I think that my forward momentum quickly overcomes any sideslip. Also, given the length to beam ratio of a kayak, it's long axis will naturally come around to line up with the direction of the moving water. I see that frequently with the rental yaks after the tourist have been thrown off. They will frequently shoot straight in toward the beach. They only turn sideways and start rolling when they hit the sand.

 

[bushwoodboy]

Douglas, that is a beautiful picture you paint & what you say makes a lot of sense. The extra length of the Yak complicates things but agree with you & barry, must commit to the cause (be agressive, paddle like hell) surest way to go over the falls is to approach it half heartedly. Mal

 

[water_baby]

Hey, I'd love it if my yak straightened out after going sideways. I can stay upright OK after going sideways

ha ha ha. if i was still on my yak after it went sideways, id give myself a high-five! only managed to land three out of seven at 100%, with the others varying between embarassing to hilarious (for the onlookers)

might have to try digging the paddle in, sounds good in theory, and now summer has begun, i wont mind getting immersed so much. shame about all the bi sharks so close to shore. oh well, it is adelaide after all!

now, where did i put that power-head?.....

 

[Salty Dog]

G'day DGax65, sounds like you are from the same school as me mate. I am a "stunt" kayaker too! :lol:

 

[Peril]

G'day DGax65, sounds like you are from the same school as me mate. I am a "stunt" kayaker too! :lol:

Adam, have you ever cruised in OK? Sand monster written all over you