[Dust]

How are we all?

Corey Parker is just about to attempt a conversion as the score stands at 14-8... he missed.

I'll try and get a post off between ads.

Firstly great site - there's so much good information on this site I've been looking for days and still have a long way to go.

I'm looking for a dual purpose kayak - fishing for one and being able to take my 2 year old out for 2. I've been talked out of the Sidekick by an Ocean Kayak dealer who thinks they handle terribly and also thinks they might be taken off the list in the new year since they don't appear in his latest catelogue.

I'm having a closer look at the Cobra Fish and Dive and was wondering if anyone had anything good or bad to say about them. I haven't been able to paddle one yet. They seem to be very wide - do they handle OK or are they a bit like a barge?

Also, has anyone had someone in the front dicky seat and are they good for carrying a wriggling infant?

The Cobra website lists the new FnD as a Fish and Dive XF - do you know what the XF stands for and if it is different from the standard FnD?

If not the FnD is anyone using their fishing kayak as a child carrier as well and how do you like it? Any suggestions of better models?

I'm 175 cm, 90 kg (working on that!) and the 2 year old is 12kg. I live in the Port Stephens area so I will be kayaking mostly in the Bay but hope to get outside into the big blue yonder for a bit of fishing occasionally (through light surf and in good conditions).

Any comments welcome.

The games over - well done Brisbane (I'm a Knights supporter myself so couldn't get too passionate about it).

Cheers,

Dust

 

[Peril]

Welcome Dust,

There are a few yaks with the room and primary stability for you to feel comfortable taking out the little'un. Malibu XFactor and Viking Tempo are worth a look, alongside the FnD. In all cases you are sacrificing speed to get the primary stability - there's no free lunch.

Note that a lot of US models are not available here. I don't think any of the Cobra XF models are, but could be wrong. Aussie distributor for Cobra is http://www.thekayakshop.com.au or http://www.cobra.com.au, where you'll get a phone number.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Gator]

Dust: Check out the Malibu X-Factor or the Malibu eXtreme with the "Gator Seat" installed as the front hatch cover.

 

[Dust]

Thanks Peril and Duncan, I'll check them out.

Duncan, have you got a 'Gator' seat on your Malibu? Does it sit too high when the seat is installed or doesn't height matter with a smaller weight?

Cheers,

Dust

 

[Dust]

Here's a question comparing the FnD with the X-Factor but it could be more general than that.

What do you find more useful - a hatch or and open well when fishing? Are the hatches difficult to open on the water?

Cheers,

Dust

 

[knot-too-fast]

Hi Dust,
I have had the FnD XF for a few months now. It is the only kayak I have owned and chose it because it is wide, stable, able to carry a small child up front, plenty of mounting points on the gunwales and many Yankie kayak sites show this yak is used frequently over there.
Some will say it's slow but it gets me up and down to various points on the river systems I like to fish, with ease. I am not out to break speed records anyway. For me the increase in usable space is more important to carry and mount all my gear than is speed. I have had up to a 40kg child in the dickie seat but feel the handling of the boat altered too much. A smaller child would be fine though, say up to 20kg. When I dont have one of the kids onboard the dickie seat there is a square plastic bucket filled with sea water for the catch.
I read somewhere that the ''XF'' bit was a slight change to the design, ie) where the milk crate sits behind your seat now has a round moulded sunken section which can accomodate a round bucket or the square milk crate works just as fine also, if you prefer.
All in all I am very happy with the FnD and have just ordered a FnD motor mount and am looking at fitting a leccy so as to reach many long distance spots with a combination a paddling and battery power. I may even look at 2hp 2 stroke if this mount will take it ok.

 

[Gator]

Dust: No, I do not find that the seat is too high. My 8yo grandaughter who is big for her age rides there quite ez'ly. Would not suggest you go out in rough water though. Common sence prevails. I chose the X-Factor over the F&D because I thought the hull design was better. It is a very stable unit - But can be flipped given the right circumstances. See my post on Safety which I am about to write.

 

[Salty Dog]

G'day Dust, had the same problem when looking for a good kayak for my son who is a little older now & myself.

My criteria were:
Middle seating position for paddling solo
reasonabely fast
reasonabely stable
not too heavy (for getting on top of car)
sit on top for use offshore

Nothing that was readily available in the country measured up.

I ruled out the FnD because it is just SO big. It's based on a tandem hull, but even for a tandem, it's wide. Cobra have it listed at over 91cm wide & it's only about 3.8m wide.

The Malibu X-Factors are really heavy. I've lifted half an X-Factor & been left wondering how one guy could handle lifting one on their own. If you are a big guy, it still may be an option for you.

The Ocean Kayak Sidekick, I really wanted to like but the seating position was really high making it less stable & there was alot of hull slap on even the smallest of water.

I also tested out a Malibu 2 by Ocean Kayak - slow because of it's width, (approx 86.5cm) & short length, (approx 3.8m) but had a middle seating postion & was very comfortable for my boy with his own seat.

Also ruled out the Feelfree Tri-Yak, Ocean Kayak Cabo & a few others because of their weight.

The best all-around model that I could find in a model that was still in production was the Ocean Kayak Malibu 2XL - same width but 4.1m long with the option of putting a large oval hatch near the middle so that you would have some easy access to the inside of the boat if you needed it. The problem was that I would have to get it imported. There were shops that would do it but there was a premium involved.
http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/tandems/malibu_two_xl.html

What I ended up doing is buying a single kayak cheap, (Ocean Kayak Scupper with a tankwell for $400) & tested it out with a seat set up in the rear tankwell. It handled better & went faster with my son in it than the tandems I had tried.

Later on I bought him his own kayak off Ebay - an Ocean Kayak Kea which he is learning to paddle. He is 5 now so can paddle a bit but we only take it on flat water & I tow him when he gets too tired.

I also ended up relenting & getting an Ocean Kayak Malibu 2 2nd hand because my boy started to get too heavy for the single. He was sitting in more & more water. It was still less than ideal, although I think it is easier to handle out of the water than the FnD & probably faster.

There are other options without a middle seating position that might be worth you considering as well if you are willing to weight down the front a bit:
Australis Cuttlefish - never paddled it but it's 4.3m long & 80cm wide
Perception Swing Double - again, never paddled it but it's 4.75m long & 84cm wide.

If you have deep pockets & are willing to brave the potential problems with shipping them in from South Africa, (could get damaged), you could go for a fancy fibreglass model. Here are 2 models you can check out - they should go fast be comparatively light & there is even the option for 2 piece models if you want to further reduce the weight you have to carry at any one time.
http://www.kayak.co.za/kaskazi/skua.htm
http://www.kayak.co.za/kaskazi/duo.htm

My only advice would be to be sure to test a few boats in the water as a single & with your child or a something that weighs a similar amount in the position where they will be sitting & to try & lift whatever boat you are testing as high as you will need to when transporting it. If you want to end up with the best boat for you, you'll need to test a few.

The worse the weather is when you test, the better too, as that's the time when the design of your boat counts. Most good kayak shops will let you test for free.

Another option for you may be to try to find a reasonabely priced 2nd hand tandem & a 2nd single. I was very lucky with the Scupper at $400 & I paid $800 for the Malibu 2, so cost me less than a new single boat. Even if you paid $1000 for a used single & $800 for a tandem, you might find that you are happier that way.

Good luck finding something you like mate. I had a really hard time myself which is why I ended up with more than one kayak.

P.S. My dad lives around your area, so maybe I'll be able to catch up with you on the water sometime. If I'm heading up there before you buy, you are more than welcome to try whatever kayak/s I have with me at the time.

 

[Dust]

Thanks Salty Dog, that's a really comprehensive reply.

Weight is a bit of a factor because I will be dragging it through about 150m of bush to get to the water in many cases.

Speed isn't too much of a factor - I'm in no hurry when I'm fishing and I've got a SIK if I feel the need for speed. As long as I can get to trolling speed without busting a gasket I'm happy.

I have to travel a reasonable distance to any kayak shop (Newcastle or Gosford) so may get down to Sydney as well in this quest. I wanted to test one last Saturday but was told that it was too windy (which is when I would have liked to test it). Does anyone have any recmmendations for a kayak shop which gives good service and will let you test the kayaks? I'm happy to travel to Sydney or anywhere north of Sydney to Port Stephens.

Cheers,

Dust

 

[Squidder]

Apparently the XF on the latest Fish n Dive model stands for 'extra fishy' (seriously), which translates to it having wider flat deck areas for mounting stuff and (I think) some extra rod holders. The sides of the older version slope outwards, whereas on the XF they are more vertical, therefore providing more flat deck space.

RE the big rectangular hatch on the FnD, it's too easy to open on the water and I use it a lot for storing tackle, fish, wallet/keys etc.

I wouldn't fancy travelling on the FnD buddy seat unless you are a very, very small child - I find there is some water which sits there permanently while paddling, I'd have to agree with the others that either the X-factor with Gator seat or a true tandem yak would be a better option for taking out the little fella. Also, I've used the buddy seat to carry SCUBA gear while paddling to dive sites, but ended up moving the gear to the tank well because the extra weight up front caused the yak to track badly.

As for speed, FnDs are not the fastest yak out there, but mine hasn't stopped me from doing anything I've wanted to in the year or so I've had it, and I mostly fish alongside perception swings and other much faster yaks.

 

[Dust]

Squidder - thanks for the tip - its useful to know that the dicky seat in the FnD stays pretty much permanently wet. When you've got a 2 year old in the kayak it's hard enough to keep them still without giving them such a good excuse for getting out of their seat.

Occy, I'll keep my ears to the ground for the expos - look forward to finding out more about them.

This site has been great for looking at other options. One of the strongest yet is the Malibu X Factor. Some people are complaining about the weight but the specs that I have say that it is 55 lbs (=25kg). This seems pretty acceptable for me compared to many other models (I was told that the prowlers made in NZ are all coming in 5kg heavier than their spec because they have decided to strengthen them up more so the prowler 13 which comes in at 23.5kg (I think - correct me if I'm wrong) now weighs 28.5kg).

Does 25kg for an X factor sound right to you or am I looking an artistic interpretation of the weight by the sales dept from Malibu?

Cheers,

Dust

 

[RedPhoenix]

Unfortunately, due to the change in ownership of this web site and the lack of response by the owners to my requests to remove my email address from all administrative-level notifications and functionality, I have decided to remove my posts on AKFF. Thank you for the great times, the fantastic learning experiences and the many many fish. If you are desperate for the old content of this particular post, it is available below base64 encoded and bzip2 compressed.

Red.

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[Salty Dog]

G'day Dust, the weight rating on the Malibu X-Factor is an artistic impression of the highest order - perhaps Ken Done? :lol:

Seriously mate, they are very heavy. I'd try lifting one for yourself before you make any decision.

As for kayak shops where you can test paddle. I have only tested in Sydney before but here are the ones I know:

Lisa at Kayak Adventure Sports at the Spit is friendly. They have a fairly good range & will let you test free of charge. Parking is normally a problem but she may be able to give you the lowdown so that you find somewhere to park without spending your life savings.

They are right on the water too. An added bonus is that there is another kayak shop just down the road.
http://www.kayakadventuresports.com.au/index2.html

Bruce at Bundeena Kayaks is a nice guy. He runs a shop & a hire business. Although his range is not as large, it should be no problem to test a few kayaks & the area he operates out of is nice.
http://www.bundeenakayaks.com.au

Denise at Kayaks Oz is nice to talk to on the phone. I've never been to her shop or asked for a test paddle but I don't think it will be a problem. I know that she runs test paddle days.
http://www.kayaksaustralia.com.au

Closer to home for you, the only one I know of is in Newcastle. I bought a 2nd boat from there. Their shop was a bit smaller & to be honest the guy there did seem to be a bit elitist & oriented mostly towards sea kayaking in sit insides.

The guy I spoke with didn't seem all that bad really, maybe just a little "socially removed".
http://www.seakayaking.com.au/

Honestly, if speed is not too much of an issue & the comfort factor for your child is, I reckon a tandem boat might suit you better. My son sometimes turns into a Mexican on the Malibu 2, slides his hat down & has a bit of a siesta in his seat without any fear of falling in the water.

Don't what the access is like where you are but a set of wheels may help as well so you can load up the kayak & wheel it down to the water.

 

[Dust]

Thanks Redphoenix, I'll look into those kayaks.

Also Saltydog - that's a great rundown of a few kayak shops. I'll see if I can get down to Sydney in the near future.

One thing is still bugging me - Malibu Kayaks. I can't seem to find any Australian dealers except for one in WA. Are there any Malibu Kayaks dealers in NSW (and more to the point are there any which will allow a test paddle and a test lift to see how heavy they are).

Cheers,

Dust

 

[knot-too-fast]

"Wetspot" in Canberra carry Malibu if that helps. Yes "Wetspot" and there in Fyshwick as well. :roll:

 

[Dust]

Just thought I would say that after a lot of deliberation I decided to go with the Cobra Fish and Dive. I have to say that I really liked the look of the Malibu X Factor but could not get to see one anywhere - a lot of places I was told had them ended up having the Ocean Kayak Malibu range instead of the Malibu brand. The OK Sidekick also looks to have gone out of production (pretty quick - it only came in a few months ago didn't it? Its not in the current season's price list anyway) and I had a couple of dodgy reports about it so had pretty much ruled it out already.

The other deciding factor was the price - Malibu X Factors worked out a lot more expensive (the hull alone was $1899 then I was quoted $400 for a rudder, $170 for the Gator hatch, 150 for a seat... we were heading for over two and a half grand). I managed to pick up a Cobra hull for $1090 and a $55 backrest (if the backrest is not up to scratch I'll put it on the dicky seat for the kids and get a better seat).

I picked up the fish n dive from Gosford today. I haven't had it out fishing yet but will try and get out tomorrow for a quiet bit of estuary fishing (weather's looking lousy though so I may not get there) from the "bare bones" kayak. I'll travel light and drift around a few of the Islands in Port Stephens - weather permitting.

Thanks for all of the advice on this forum - it's been very useful and provided a lot of information which I could not have gotten from anywhere else.

...now comes the hard part of setting it up - more forum questions no doubt.

Cheers,

Dust

 

[Dodge]

I picked up the fish n dive from Gosford today.

...now comes the hard part of setting it up - more forum questions no doubt.

Congrats on the new yak mate; setting up is one of the best parts of the procedure, wander through Rigged Kayaks and you will see many ideas which may be of use even if on another brand kayak

 

[Polar]

Congrats Dust - I currently have a FnD - just stumbled on your post - when I first got the FnD I could paddle for about 2kms with my 10yr (@ the time - approx 28kgs) son on the buddy seat and my 7yr daughter (24kgs)seated in the tank well. It was a hard but enjoyable slog - also @ that stage I weighed between 121-125kgs - very unfit :evil: .

Now I weigh 97kgs- reasonably fit and I can paddle 12.5kms with my daughter on the front of the yak and the last 4kms was into a 15knot headwind. The beauty of the FnD is that it is a cheaper alternative to some other brand of yaks that is also stable and a great fishing platform, and later on if you get addicted to yakking AND YOU WILL you can upgrade to a better yak

 

[Dust]

Thought I would give you a rundown on my first impressions of the Fish n Dive. I’ll start by saying that I haven’t given it a â€Å"properâ€

 

[Peril]

No need to apologise for that report Dust - a beauty.

Congrats on getting out on the new yak and its no surprise the little one loves it. Look forward to many successful fishing reports.

And when you've sussed out some spots, I'll be expecting an invitation for a camping weekend up there. I reckon we could muster a fair posse.