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Tonystott said:
In my opinion, yesterday's announcement by the government that no person arriving via boat will be allowed to settle in Australia is a masterstroke.

As long as the government lifts the numbers of asylum seekers arriving by plane, Australia will still be doing its bit to take in refugees, but the decision regarding the boat arrivals will instantly and permanently destroy the business model of the people smugglers, who after all are the true bad guys in all this. Asylum seekers will simply not pay (the huge sums representing nearly all their assets) for someone to cram them into a dodgy boat so they can finish up living in PNG.

I suspect this is going to cost us taxpayers less than the current woefully costly detention centres.

It also seems to me to be the first time someone has come up with a plan that really will "stop the boats", unlike Abbott's BS slogan which had no chance of every becoming reality.

I reckon Abbott is toast now.
What about boat people who don't know about the change in policy and end up still paying the smugglers but with even less chance if success?

Does this system punish the poor asylum seekers and (potentially) reward the rich ones.
 

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Trolling -
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
 

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BIGKEV said:
Trolling -
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
Just what the forum needs, another Labor party fan boy. :roll:

Its a possible short term solution to drum up before an election, we'll hafter see.
 

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Tonystott said:
BIGKEV said:
Trolling -
In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]
Bigkev, you made a typo in the last line.

OFF-topic discussion.. Negates the rest of your post.
Copied & pasted.......Was more focused in this context:

by posting inflammatory messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.

The post was clearly started to polarise differing opinions within the forum on a very contensious topic.

Following on from some of the crap that has been posted here in the last few days, I believe my original post to be fairly accurate.

I'm sure if you would like to continue your push towards 'stopping the boats' there should be a white supremacist or ******* forum somewhere that will welcome your opinions with open arms.

Personally I'm a bit over it all.
 

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During the WWII era boat loads of jewish refugees escaping nazi persecution sought refuge in other countries and were refused entry.

At one time several decades ago we welcomed people who had come by boat and endured attack, the risk of drowning and who knowingly left family and friends behind.

Then we were led to believe that these asylum seekers would do anything to get to our fair shores including 'throwing babies overboard'.

"detention centres" with razor wire, guards, and very remote and inhospitable locations were built and operated by the private sector including some in The Pacific....there was a solution! A 'regional' solution!

Simultaneously we removed certain parts of Australian territory from the map for the purposes of preventing people arriving by boat claiming asylum and stuffing up the pollies vote count in any election near at hand. Both sides have to be tough.

Then we had tv reality shows about asylum seekers, border security etc

Then it became the nasty people smugglers.

Two or three weeks ago i started to hear the term 'economic refugees' being bandied about the media in grabs from the new pollies on the perch. Took a while for that one to start to permeate the airwaves. As if there is anything wrong in that.

Now we tell these 'asylum seekers who come by boat', we won't let you in...go to PNG.

Let's not be fooled into thinking that this is a solution other than for a purely political end of hanging on to a seat in parliament - and it does not matter which colour it is either. Many of our pollies are playing this card. Forget all the bull about Australia being a global citizen and standing proud on the world stage.

Our PM and his opposite number are dishing it up again. Wish our voters had the guts and conscience to clear them out of the woodwork and replace them with persons of vision and conscience. I know I know....when it comes to pollies that is a tall order.

Oh yeah. Every taxpayer and in fact every Australian is paying for any action by our governments. We will be fully financing the relocations. Oh yeah...PNG is our largest foreign aid recipient. Some things never change. I bet the aid to PNG will be greater henceforth.

It would be humanitarian of us to accept these people and resettle them.
 

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Lapse said:
They have had 6 years to come up with a solution, so they bring it out 2 months before the election.
They have done the same thing with the carbon pricing scheme, gonski review, gay marriage and a few other major policies. They did the same thing with the leader of the party. Out with the old, in with the new because there is an election upcoming

I will not be voting labor on this principal alone. Ignoring the fact that I disagree with refusing any honest refugee.
(Not saying I like what the Libs are doing either)
This,,, exactly the point, what have they been doing in government for the past years.

Any money, Rudd comes up with a $1000 payout for every one to buy a new kayak, LCD, Laptop, Ipad before the election !
 

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Personally, I don't think it it the asylum seekers who are the real problem. Poor, desperate buggers.

It is our inefficient handling of these people that cost the $. If we could process their applications faster (places like Canada and the UK take weeks - not months or years) then we would massively reduce the cost to the taxpayer involved in detaining them indefinitely.
 

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No matter which party gets in, I suspect this model will still be adopted.
I presume people accepted will then be flown to Australia.
The problem is far more complex than I thought and it must be a nightmare to try to sort out, this is at least a proactive move along side other moves to help prevent the people that are flying in to Indonesia to catch boats.
Turning back the boats isn't a policy, it's a death sentence, half the boats barely survive a one way trip.

Huge problem and one that needs to be looked at by the world, not just Australia. Ultimately the problem needs to be solved at source, the fact that these poor people need to leave their homes in the first place.
 

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Genuine question.
Can people get to Indonesia from other countries without a passport?
 

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spork said:
JF - people "can" get into ANY country, Indonesia included, without a passport.
But unless they can prove they are "genuine refugees" they will not usually be allowed to stay.
How do you do that?
Only time I've flown international required a pasport, a visa and a work permit.
 

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salticrak said:
Does the religious beliefs of the overwhelming majority of refugees play a part in this sorry tale?
Ideally not by those in control but religious beliefs, skin colour, language, sex, country of origin etc etc probably all play a part for the voters.
 

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This what we are dealing with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

Robsea set out the background for you Tony:

"During the WWII era boat loads of jewish refugees escaping nazi persecution sought refuge in other countries and were refused entry.

At one time several decades ago we welcomed people who had come by boat and endured attack, the risk of drowning and who knowingly left family and friends behind.

Then we were led to believe that these asylum seekers would do anything to get to our fair shores including 'throwing babies overboard'.

"detention centres" with razor wire, guards, and very remote and inhospitable locations were built and operated by the private sector including some in The Pacific....there was a solution! A 'regional' solution!

Simultaneously we removed certain parts of Australian territory from the map for the purposes of preventing people arriving by boat claiming asylum and stuffing up the pollies vote count in any election near at hand. Both sides have to be tough.

Then we had tv reality shows about asylum seekers, border security etc

Then it became the nasty people smugglers.

Two or three weeks ago i started to hear the term 'economic refugees' being bandied about the media in grabs from the new pollies on the perch. Took a while for that one to start to permeate the airwaves. As if there is anything wrong in that.

Now we tell these 'asylum seekers who come by boat', we won't let you in...go to PNG.

Let's not be fooled into thinking that this is a solution other than for a purely political end of hanging on to a seat in parliament - and it does not matter which colour it is either. Many of our pollies are playing this card. Forget all the bull about Australia being a global citizen and standing proud on the world stage.

Our PM and his opposite number are dishing it up again. Wish our voters had the guts and conscience to clear them out of the woodwork and replace them with persons of vision and conscience. I know I know....when it comes to pollies that is a tall order.

Oh yeah. Every taxpayer and in fact every Australian is paying for any action by our governments. We will be fully financing the relocations. Oh yeah...PNG is our largest foreign aid recipient. Some things never change. I bet the aid to PNG will be greater henceforth.

It would be humanitarian of us to accept these people and resettle them."
The current mess for us started as a simple "dog-whistle" politics by one political party trying to attract votes from the other political party. Politicizing the way we deal with those "foreign" people seeking asylum here has been a successful strategy for the libs since the Pauline Hanson days. The issue can swing an election. It's way out of control now. Kevin Rudd has decided to join labor in the "demonizing" the foreigners politics, rather than persuade us on the ethics/morals, to try to neutralize these wretched people as an election issue. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, in the race to the bottom.

I don't blame the politicians for the embarrassment this causes to us as a nation, and the damage to our reputation - it's a reflection all us Aussies (the "voters").

Hopefully, one day, we will return to sensible bipartisan politics on this divisive issue, and deal with it behind closed doors.
 

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If they want to come, let them. They're risking life for a chance at a better one. That's enough for me.

To much political time is wasted on this, not to mention money
This is a non issue that's been hyped up and now has to be solved.
 

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"I do not understand why people think this new policy is some sort of disgrace, or that it is just a shallow political gimmick. I firmly believe it is a masterstroke of genius, and will save lots of lives."
OK Tony - I'll try to help you understand those "people".

Think carefully about this comment:

"The enemy (everybody's) is the people smuggler The policy is aimed at destroying the people smuggler business model,"
Sure, most of the people who help the refugees are only in it for the $, but not everybody accepts the "problem" faced by us Australians is as a simple as breaking these enemy smuggler "bad guys" businesses. Some believe the real problem is worldwide, and more complicated than equating transporting desperate people with transporting illegal drugs. (Nancy Wake and Oscar Schindler were "people smugglers" too).

And some are not comfortable with the idea of a nation of our status in the world shipping desperate people off to a dirt poor neighbour (in return for $, of course), to get around a Convention that we are signed up to.

Last year's "Report of the Expert Panel on Asylum Seekers" is a useful starting point - if you want to learn a bit more about some of the fairly complicated issues and viewpoints:

http://expertpanelonasylumseekers.dpmc.gov.au/

Will Rudd's policy "save lots of lives" of refugees? Impossible to gauge, but if the policy is "successful" (i.e it stops people coming to Australia by boat and seeking asylum), the refugees (and their families) won't die trying to get here. And if they die somewhere else, it won't be our problem. We will feel good about that.

So (politically at least) Rudd's new policy could well be a "masterstroke of genius".
 
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I disagree Alex. They have a will to breed and take welfare so they don't need to work while pensioners struggle to live on the asistance provided by the government. They take public housing form deserving family's. I could go on but can't be bothered getting in to this pissing debate.
 
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