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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Often an outcome depends on who you talk to in the chain of command. The service guy probably has little authority to grant you anything outside the standard terms. Make a call to reception and explain the situation and find out the best person to contact. Write a polite letter stating that the problem was component failure and not misuse, that you have been a faithful customer and that your confidence in the product has been let down. Could they exercise their discretion in this instance and make good the fault for you.
You might be pleasantly surprised or at least you gave it your best shot.
 

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Also have a chat with the ACCC and/or the state equivalent to identify your rights and to get advice on courses of action.

You might find that they conduct their own enquiry and attempt to mediate.

Failing that is the bad publicity angle if they are not reasonable about the incident.

Regards

Ian :)
 

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Anything you get now will be good will. You have no claim that will be legal under it's warranty.
 

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leftieant said:
Actually, warranty is a completely artificial construct. There is no legal basis for them. What you need to argue is whether the unit was 'fit for use' - ie, given what you paid for it, what would a reasonable person expect the life/ usage to be.

It's like arguing about how long a piece of string is though, and you need to stick to your guns. It might involve playing a bit of hardball, and you need to be prepared to lose as well.
Chris

Do not give up. You paid good after tax dollars for a product that did not perform. You are entitled to (maybe)(at least) hundreds, if not thousands of hours of use. As Ant says, as Australian Consumer Law says, it must be fit for purpose. We must not buy the line from manufacturers or retailers that "it is out of warranty", or "you only paid $ 900 , or even $ 80, for it".

I have a similar issue with a Lowrance Elite 5 that just died. The retailer will have it in the next few days, and it will be interesting to see the result. It has been used for about 200 hours.

Another example: I had an MP3 player that died a year or so after I bought it. The retailer tried similar lines. One young upstart even said "you are lucky to get 15 months out of it. They are designed to fail within a year or so." I didn't buy it, and told the whole store, loudly, including all present customers, and got a new MP3 within minutes.

Do NOT take this crap from retailers.
 
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There's a standards format for a successful complaint, which goes:
"This is what it should have done";
"This is what it did";
"This is what I want you to do about it".

Adapt that to the circumstance. Do it in writing. Make sure it is concise and the message is simple. Be courteous - you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

If you have no luck, push it up the chain of command. Somewhere there may be a manager who understands good customer relations brings in sales.
 
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Digger said:
The other fight I have going is regarding YET ANOTHER GOVERNMENT POLICY FAILURE and this one is to do with a scheme to replace electric hot water services with a "Heat Pump" model or solar HWS. It was launched in 2009 by KRudd and Co.
Then we got a defect notice from Rheem.

The policy announcement seems to have been dumped on the manufacturers who were unprepared for the rush and then made equipment in haste causing lots of faults.
I don't excuse the private companies either. Their lust for a fast buck led to shortcuts that ultimately made the 'freebies' even more expensive than they should have been and in more ways than simply financial as you discovered. However, I can't grumble about this one. Our heat pump HWS works fine; is economical to run and never runs out of hot water - unlike the off peak it replaced. Ours is a different model. We have it installed in the garage. Despite being reasonably quiet, I would not want it outside our bedroom. Ours initially leaked due to faulty plumbing. The Plumber came down and fixed that as soon as we asked.

a potential advantage of a heat pump system is reduced cost if it can be sited where the existing system is. However, as Rob's experience shows, the location of an existing unit may not be ideal. If you wish to replace you old HWS, do your research, including all installation costs and ideal location before making a decision. Don't take the word of a retailer about suitable location. While most are good, some are not. Shop around. Speaking to the initiated, public discussion forums (e.g. http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=threads_search&q=hot+water&f=&fg=-1) can be a good source of information.

EDIT: Whirlpool even encroach on our turf
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/?action=threads_search&q=kayak&f=&fg=-1
 

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The "fit for purpose" approach is your trump card argument.

With ACCC they have standard proformas with which you can fill out the details

A chat to the office of your Federal Member wouldn't go astray as well. If they have the facts summarised for them, they quite often follow up the supplier/importer. All this is subtle pressure.

Perhaps some of us who were genuinely considering purchasing a Humminbird device (in my case this is true; or have recently purchased a Humminbird); can write to Humminbird/BLA stating this intention but are concerned that Humminbird isn't honouring its obligations with faulty products etc.

The other thing you could do is post a notice on the various fishing, tackle, boating websites asking whether anyone else has had similar experiences and ask them to contact you and Humminbird/BLA.

Just some ideas

Ian
 

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Digger said:
Yes thanks Hawkeye I did know that as I studied some legal subjects at night school.

I'm not even sure that I want another Rheem product on the property but would look silly standing up in court if I hadn't told them (Rheem) of my problems first.
Thanks Digger, I was actually focused on the Humminbird post rather than your reply. I would write to Rheem with a back copy to ACCC and your MHR/Senator.
What Rheem may do is pay for the relocation to another part of your property so it has less impact on your sleep. We have one installed too (DUX) but it does appear to be getting noisier with age. I may consider upgrading it with solar collectors so the heat pump doesn't start up as often. It is just an idea and I don't know if it is technically feasible - it would nullify the warranty probably.

Regards

Ian
 

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Hi Chris,

My understanding of consumer law is that there is a higher expectation with regards to durability for an item with a big ticket price.

Your protection is not limited to just the period of whatever arbitrary warranty period is provided to you by the supplier/manufacturer. That much is fact.

The expectations for your sounder's use given the ticket price should be more than 40 hours. If you paid $10 for it, then you might reasonably expect that it may only last for 40 hours.

Here is an excerpt from http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/fact_sheets/_downloads/fact_sheet_the_shops.pdf which looks to be a dumbed down summary provided for consumers, ie us.

Quality products and services
All products must be safe, durable, free from defects, fit for purpose, acceptable in appearance, match
its description and match any sample or demonstration model.
All services must be delivered with care and skill.
Businesses must honour all guarantees, including express and extended warranties.
If you have only had 40 hours of use out of your sounder, it was not durable or free from defect.

You would think that even if the retailer might try not to deal with you, (& I would be pushing the issue if I was you), that Humminbird would be willing to come to the party just to avoid bad publicity.

What would you rather if you are a manufacturer, a report of a one off fault which you received great after market service for & replacement of the faulty unit or a report of your company making dodgy equipment & then leaving you in the lurch when you get stung, especially for their higher end gear, they should want to avoid that sort of publicity.

If you want a quick result you are best off pushing whoever you bought the sounder from to replace it & have them chase it up with the manufacturer. If they won't cooperate, I'd pull out consumer law & the ACCC on them, ask to speak to the manager, ask how to submit a formal written complaint to them so that it can be followed up with the ACCC, etc. Hopefully you may get a result from them this way. You quite often need to be pushy & prepared to argue the point for you to get anywhere though. You are better off choosing a time when there are alot of people in the shop for the best result.

Good luck with it.
 

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Digger,

Just had a bright idea.

The air intake on my unit is on the top. So I thought if yours is similar that you could knock up a timber frame and cover it with a geotextile like Bidim U34.
This will filter most of the dust out and you can clean it with the hose periodically. You could probably get an off cut from a local civil contractor.

Regards

Ian
 

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In my limited experience, standard procedure is to fob you off for a while, ignore your correspondence and let you do lots of chasing before they'll think about whether they'll do anything or not. After that you'll get complete satisfaction, absolutely nothing or something somewhere in between.

This process culls out a lot of the bogus claims or those people who give up/forget to chase up the issue.

I've got to the stage now where, if I pay money for something, regardless of how little, I contact them straight away. Bought a $7 trailer plug from a discount auto shop on a weekend and went to fit it up. The thing fell apart in my hand the first time I went to unplug it from the vehicle. It was plastic and the way it was designed it flexed enough trying to pull it out that some of the locking pins disengaged and it came apart. I took the guy outside to demonstrate and was very firm that the product was shit and I,wasn't leaving without a refund or a better quality part which I was,happy to pay the difference for.
 

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Barrabundy said:
In my limited experience, standard procedure is to fob you off for a while, ignore your correspondence and let you do lots of chasing before they'll think about whether they'll do anything or not. After that you'll get complete satisfaction, absolutely nothing or something somewhere in between.

This process culls out a lot of the bogus claims or those people who give up/forget to chase up the issue.

I've got to the stage now where, if I pay money for something, regardless of how little, I contact them straight away. Bought a $7 trailer plug from a discount auto shop on a weekend and went to fit it up. The thing fell apart in my hand the first time I went to unplug it from the vehicle. It was plastic and the way it was designed it flexed enough trying to pull it out that some of the locking pins disengaged and it came apart. I took the guy outside to demonstrate and was very firm that the product was shit and I,wasn't leaving without a refund or a better quality part which I was,happy to pay the difference for.
That's the spirit Con. Take shit from no one, regardless of the cost.
 

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If you do go down the long road and complain don't use the "but I hardly used it excuse" as this will get you nowhere,(they aint gunna believe you only used it 10 times in 3.5 years) better to argue from the realistic expectation of service for the price angle.
You could be waiting a long time and what are you going to use in the meantime?
I would pay the $341 and feel really pissed off about it for awhile and then remember all those poor folk in Bangladesh slaving in Australian clothing factories for $22 a month and then think what a lucky bastard I am that I can Have a boat a kayak, have a place to store it, go fishing and equip it with what will now be a $1961 dollar sounder.
It won't be the only "Mike Tyson's left leg" situation you will find yourself in, in your lifetime.
I do feel your pain.
 
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bildad said:
I would pay the $341 and feel really pissed off about it for awhile and then remember all those poor folk in Bangladesh slaving in Australian clothing factories for $22 a month and then think what a lucky bastard I am that I can Have a boat a kayak, have a place to store it, go fishing and equip it with what will now be a $1961 dollar sounder.
While its good that you are empathetic, that's totally irrelevant. The FF would have been made by cheap labour in a Chinese factory :twisted: ;-)

EDIT: make that, 'a factory in China'. More than likely, the factory in multi-national rather than Chinese.
 

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SteveR said:
bildad said:
I would pay the $341 and feel really pissed off about it for awhile and then remember all those poor folk in Bangladesh slaving in Australian clothing factories for $22 a month and then think what a lucky bastard I am that I can Have a boat a kayak, have a place to store it, go fishing and equip it with what will now be a $1961 dollar sounder.
While its good that you are empathetic, that's totally irrelevant. The FF would have been made by cheap labour in a Chinese factory :twisted: ;-)

EDIT: make that, 'a factory in China'. More than likely, the factory in multi-national rather than Chinese.
The context of the point is to remember how fortunate we are to live in this country, by comparing myself with less fortunate others gives me a "ah well it's not so bad attitude"
 

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Re: Any whingers out there?

You win Dig, you get a free hotty and still not satisfied, you want it to be quiet and efficient to......there just no pleasing some.
It sounds like its as much of an install problem as anything else. The plumber should of advised you against installing there, but then it wouldn't of been free and he wouldn't of got any money for it.
As you are obviously aware now, heat pumps work best on the sunny open side of the house (preferably on the north side), they dont work so well in confined spaces, so no good in doors, maybe ok if you have a large garage. Same deal with solar, you need to install on a north facing roof away from shaded trees and in a warm climate.....you could move to QLD they all work great here.
Also quite a few heat pumps dont work on off peak, they work better during the day when its hotter and drier. Of cause someone should of explained that to you.
A 315ltr (or maybe a 250 if you dont use much hot water) standard electric would be the most economic to swap it to and go on the maximum off peak tariff.
 
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