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·Anyone got any details? My mum just rang to make sure it wasn't me!
32yr old Kayaker missing on Moreton Bay 25/05/2013
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·As of a few minutes ago, he had still not been found, despite VMR/Coastguard still looking for him.
Let's hope and pray.....
This once again raises the questions about basic safety gear. Does he have a PFD? We hope so, though only two weeks ago I saw 6 kayakers on SOT's at Scarby without PFD's. WTF?
If only he had a VHF ($ 160 +), or a PLB (with GPS)($ 400).....he would have been rescued hours ago. Let's hope and pray.....
Let's hope and pray.....
This once again raises the questions about basic safety gear. Does he have a PFD? We hope so, though only two weeks ago I saw 6 kayakers on SOT's at Scarby without PFD's. WTF?
If only he had a VHF ($ 160 +), or a PLB (with GPS)($ 400).....he would have been rescued hours ago. Let's hope and pray.....
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I saw aerial shots of the area on the news. It was flat as a tack. Obviously no way to know what the conditions were like earlier though. Fingers crossed for him.
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It was over twenty knots when he went missing. The wind is not so important now, though at the time it may well have been a contributing factor. The biggest concern is the water temperature (about 19 C), and the 'assumed' lack of safety comms. Exposure and hypothermia are inevitable by now.kevinnugent said:
Yes Andy. But not so much if he had the skills.theclick said:
If he had the skills though, surely he would have had the safety comms like VHF and PLB. The people who are in that place are the ones most likely to have all that safety gear, but they rarely use it because their skills get them out of it.Yes, thanks Andy. He was, thankfully, found by Water Police near the coal loading facility, within the Brisbane River mouth, close to 10 pm. He was not in his kayak, but on top of it. Apparently there were two of them, and the other person got to shore previously and alerted authorities. We will find out more early today on the news. Just before he was found, there were 18 vessels searching for him, including 2 helicopters at $ 3,000/hr each. (Total cost? - I would conservatively guess at $ 80,000).andybear said:
He has some questions to answer, and some reality checks to implement. We'll leave that to the police.
If it happens to you, have you got that safety gear?
Skills are another matter. Addressing those skills directly, we will hold another safety day at Scarborough about September ... be there!
Do not doubt....there will be more to follow in his paddle strokes. It is far too easy to buy a kayak and set out with no skills, safety training, or back up safety gear such as VHF and PLB (with GPS). There is no mentoring/fostering/developing of skills or safety that exist in a 'club environment.' We, members of the fastest growing sport in Oz, 'own' that dilemma, and sadly, we risk being labelled accordingly as 'idiots.' We also run the risk of subsequent greater government regulation.
:twisted:Is there anything we can do, other than Safety Days, to stem the tide of 'suicide kayakers'?
When I was returning to shore on Friday with South West winds to 20knots ahead of an approaching nasty looking cloud formation in the South West, I noticed a fellow launching a kayak 50 metres from my landing spot. He didn't appear to have safety gear, and I toyed with the idea of warning him about just how bad the wind was when out of the protection of the cliffs and built-up area, plus the impending nasty stuff.
He looked like he was coming over to me to say hello, but veered off and didn't wave back when I waved (I would then have warned him), and I left him to it.
I kept checking on his progress, and when he reached the point where he could feel a bit of the strength of wind and also see the cloud formation easier, he turned back and when I'd completed my tasks a was about to drive off, he'd done about three runs up and down the in-close protected water.
Myself, I'd hugged the shore-line between the jetties at Reef Point at Scarborough and as far South as Redcliffe jetty, but obviously could feel the wind-strength at all times, and also see the pretty big waves out to sea where the wind was really showing its effects.
Trev (incapable through recent operation at the time) and I had observed a couple of women only just scrape out of trouble one day last year, near our launching area. A pretty mean Westerly had sprung up after lovely conditions. They could easily have reached the shore and walked back to their car, then driven back to the yak, but their mind-set said that they had to paddle to their car.
That mind-set could have cost them dearly. Both Trev and I were most concerned for them and had they not returned safely, I would have radioed the Coast Guard. I thought about going out to help them at one stage, but thought that I would only complicate matters and get myself into strife as well, so resorted to observing and radio-ing help if needed.
Added to their predicament was that their paddling skills on a two-man craft was just not up to the task... their timing was all over the place.
I bet they were absolutely knackered when they hit shore. They made it all right, but I haven't seen them there since.
Trev and I weren't together as all this unfolded, as he had begun walking back to his car that he'd left at Margate, using the walk as a return to fitness after his op.
Both he and I have aided new-chums to kayaking during the past year, and see heaps of others with "get into strife" potential, regularly... it's just too easy to buy very cheap kayaks nowadays, grab a paddle, stick a rod in the holder and out you go!
Cheers, Jimbo
He looked like he was coming over to me to say hello, but veered off and didn't wave back when I waved (I would then have warned him), and I left him to it.
I kept checking on his progress, and when he reached the point where he could feel a bit of the strength of wind and also see the cloud formation easier, he turned back and when I'd completed my tasks a was about to drive off, he'd done about three runs up and down the in-close protected water.
Myself, I'd hugged the shore-line between the jetties at Reef Point at Scarborough and as far South as Redcliffe jetty, but obviously could feel the wind-strength at all times, and also see the pretty big waves out to sea where the wind was really showing its effects.
Trev (incapable through recent operation at the time) and I had observed a couple of women only just scrape out of trouble one day last year, near our launching area. A pretty mean Westerly had sprung up after lovely conditions. They could easily have reached the shore and walked back to their car, then driven back to the yak, but their mind-set said that they had to paddle to their car.
That mind-set could have cost them dearly. Both Trev and I were most concerned for them and had they not returned safely, I would have radioed the Coast Guard. I thought about going out to help them at one stage, but thought that I would only complicate matters and get myself into strife as well, so resorted to observing and radio-ing help if needed.
Added to their predicament was that their paddling skills on a two-man craft was just not up to the task... their timing was all over the place.
I bet they were absolutely knackered when they hit shore. They made it all right, but I haven't seen them there since.
Trev and I weren't together as all this unfolded, as he had begun walking back to his car that he'd left at Margate, using the walk as a return to fitness after his op.
Both he and I have aided new-chums to kayaking during the past year, and see heaps of others with "get into strife" potential, regularly... it's just too easy to buy very cheap kayaks nowadays, grab a paddle, stick a rod in the holder and out you go!
Cheers, Jimbo
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Out of interest what was the wind direction?
I have done the journey from Whyte Island boat ramp to the channel between Green and St Helena (and return) on several occasions with the afternoon SE kicking in on the return. Used to be my personal stomping ground, my extended back yard. As long as you are fit and prepared the biggest issue is (a) at low tide the mud banks from Fishermans Island are too much for easy portage and a long way to go round (b) at high tide finding the turning buoy which is also a marker for Wynnum. Especially tricky with a little spray and the afternoon sun in your eyes.
With a SE at least it's pushing you to shore. I wouldn't do the same trip with an expected NE - unless I changed to point to point and got out at Wello. I'd leave it well alone in a southerly (B plan exit at Nudgee) or westerly (B plan you have to chance on the islands).
The issue with Moreton Bay, I guess similar to PPB, is shallow water, with less fetch (clear distance that lets the wind get a grip on the water) than you might think (Stradbroke and Moreton Islands are in the road of the on shore breeze) the "chop" is ferocious. White caps might not appear until the wind is somewhat higher than you think. Chop Easily tops 1.5 m, vertical face (most kayaks get buried rather than catch these runners), and a high skill level is needed to maintain any direction other than with the wind, or broached to the waves. The rudder may not help, you need paddle skills. The chop is incredibly close too, no time to gather wits, no sets, it's just constant. A chop wave in theory does not have the power of swell with a slow period between waves, but they are not just curling, but dumping. What power chop has it uses to max effect.
Wind strength descriptions like Beaufort don't help - good for the open blue but not here. On the whole I'm more comfortable off Sydney in 2.5m swell than on Moreton once the chop goes over 1.2m.
Glad to hear they found them. One other thought, with just about any form of communication you are in good stead on these waters, the bay is well travelled and well supported by VMR police maritime etc, let alone the Ports people. You don't want to be left floating over night, aim to self preserve but call in the Cavalry at a time that is as easy for them as you can make it.
I have done the journey from Whyte Island boat ramp to the channel between Green and St Helena (and return) on several occasions with the afternoon SE kicking in on the return. Used to be my personal stomping ground, my extended back yard. As long as you are fit and prepared the biggest issue is (a) at low tide the mud banks from Fishermans Island are too much for easy portage and a long way to go round (b) at high tide finding the turning buoy which is also a marker for Wynnum. Especially tricky with a little spray and the afternoon sun in your eyes.
With a SE at least it's pushing you to shore. I wouldn't do the same trip with an expected NE - unless I changed to point to point and got out at Wello. I'd leave it well alone in a southerly (B plan exit at Nudgee) or westerly (B plan you have to chance on the islands).
The issue with Moreton Bay, I guess similar to PPB, is shallow water, with less fetch (clear distance that lets the wind get a grip on the water) than you might think (Stradbroke and Moreton Islands are in the road of the on shore breeze) the "chop" is ferocious. White caps might not appear until the wind is somewhat higher than you think. Chop Easily tops 1.5 m, vertical face (most kayaks get buried rather than catch these runners), and a high skill level is needed to maintain any direction other than with the wind, or broached to the waves. The rudder may not help, you need paddle skills. The chop is incredibly close too, no time to gather wits, no sets, it's just constant. A chop wave in theory does not have the power of swell with a slow period between waves, but they are not just curling, but dumping. What power chop has it uses to max effect.
Wind strength descriptions like Beaufort don't help - good for the open blue but not here. On the whole I'm more comfortable off Sydney in 2.5m swell than on Moreton once the chop goes over 1.2m.
Glad to hear they found them. One other thought, with just about any form of communication you are in good stead on these waters, the bay is well travelled and well supported by VMR police maritime etc, let alone the Ports people. You don't want to be left floating over night, aim to self preserve but call in the Cavalry at a time that is as easy for them as you can make it.
Not at all Geoff....not intimated at all. SOLAS is paramount, regardless of how the situation occurs. I've been out of a yak in Moreton Bay and failed successful re-entry many times in an hour. It is a feeling of utter loneliness, not to mention the cold and ever present danger of sharks.BigGee said:
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I'm with Dru. I've made a similar crossing to peel in wind vs tide conditions, and don't plan on doing it again. All the skill in the world won't help if you screw a shoulder or or your rudder jams (an arguement for skegged boats). You should always plan a trip with a backup location that is going with the conditions. In a SW, this was Moreton Island... quite a way. Maybe Mud Island. It sounds like he did well to get to the port
I agree with Dru and Andy about Moreton Bay wind against tide. Conditions can be incredibly rough in no time, in a not very strong wind. It is very easy for conditions to build that could capsize you. Once you're in, you will get cold quickly.
I feel it is topical to post this link, about a very experienced sea kayaker who almost perished: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52843&p=542936#p542936
There are also a number of other gems in the Safety Section, including this one by Labrat...viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53709
I feel it is topical to post this link, about a very experienced sea kayaker who almost perished: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52843&p=542936#p542936
There are also a number of other gems in the Safety Section, including this one by Labrat...viewtopic.php?f=9&t=53709
I do not agree Ken/Clive/Chris... you do not know enough people at the top end of the skills spectrum. Your limit is not necessarily someone else's limit. There are people far more skilled who think your 20 knots is child's play to them. You cannot pick a figure, e.g. 20 knots, and say that is the limit. (Caveat: depends what you are paddling, and where you are paddling.)Safa said:
If you guys are talking only SOT's, which is what most of us paddle, I agree that many are not as seaworthy as sea kayaks (generally). For a start, they suffer windage, far beyond most sea kayak designs. But a high level of skills can compensate for many deficiencies of design. Sadly, a high level of paddle skills is lacking in the kayak fishing fraternity (generally speaking).
SOT designs are generally limiting in strongish winds (cf with sea kayaks), but skills training and regular practice can cover a multitude of design deficiencies in the craft.
20 knots? Pheeew! I cannot agree with that as a blanket rule, but at the same time I do not endorse people without good skills going out in 10 - 15 knots.
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