Native Watercraft Prop

[Ozzybass]

Has anyone out there bought one of those new pedal-powered, propellor driven Native Watercraft kayaks yet ? Hands-free fishing with REVERSE, which Hobies can't do.

[outbackjoe]

Looks like the native doesnt have the shallow water capability that the hobie does but. that prop would stop you over those shallow sand flats.

[Ozzybass]

Looks like the native doesnt have the shallow water capability that the hobie does but. that prop would stop you over those shallow sand flats.

Not having been on either a pedal Hobie nor the NW Prop, I can't really say, but I reckon that the maximum depth of either yaks' propulsion system looks similar. Ie. the Hobie flippers, at maximum extension, might reach down to a similar depth. While both yaks allow the angler to pull up the propellor or fins at launch or on shallow water, I concede that the Hobie may be easier as I believe you can make the fins lay flat against the hull, without having to completely lift up the Mirage drive. BUT the ability to reverse, to me, is a big advantage over the Hobie. Having used a small SIK for many years & regularly towed around by even small fish, I think it would be great to be able to have hands controlling the rod & reel while pedalling backwards thus preventing being dragged into a snag by a nice fish.

[bilby]

I've never paddled a Native craft prop, but i reckon they look to complicated, they have an enclosed right angle gearbox (similar to an outboards leg). to me its another thing to go wrong if saltwater gets in. I've had my mirage drive for 1.5years and i know guys who have had theres longer and all i have to do is a wash with water and a spray with inox. The benefit of reverse is negligable imo, i've fished narrow waterways chasing bream and ep's and i can't remember when i thought "reverse would be great" a small table tennis bat or similar would be ample to reverse a kayak if the need arises. Also the mirage drives still propel you at 2-3km in very shallow water, (pedals apart, short pumps).
Cheers bilby

[johnny]

have seen some in tackle shops.they look quite promising but seem to lack the sophistication of the hobie design in all areas ..

[Bart70]

Looks like the native doesnt have the shallow water capability that the hobie does but. that prop would stop you over those shallow sand flats.

Not having been on either a pedal Hobie nor the NW Prop, I can't really say, but I reckon that the maximum depth of either yaks' propulsion system looks similar. Ie. the Hobie flippers, at maximum extension, might reach down to a similar depth. While both yaks allow the angler to pull up the propellor or fins at launch or on shallow water, I concede that the Hobie may be easier as I believe you can make the fins lay flat against the hull, without having to completely lift up the Mirage drive. BUT the ability to reverse, to me, is a big advantage over the Hobie. Having used a small SIK for many years & regularly towed around by even small fish, I think it would be great to be able to have hands controlling the rod & reel while pedalling backwards thus preventing being dragged into a snag by a nice fish.

You are right - the Hobie system can be used up against the hull....I have no problem with forward movement in a few inches of water.

Not sure about the reverse......I very rarely need to grab a paddle to pull myself around from a place that I cannot get out of going forward. I have never been in a position where I have had a need to go backwards to pull a fish from structure etc...In all honesty I think you will find most Hobie users have developed their technique to do exactly what you suggest to pull fish from structure or keep them out of it....they just do it with the yak pointing forwards, or in such a manner that going forwards does the job.

I often see comments from people about Hobies and a need for reverse.....after using one for several years I can honestly say I don't really yearn for it at all.

Bart70

[Chunqx]

Having been in a Hobie Sport now for 7-8 months and fishing in various conditions, I was curious about the Native Watercraft because of 2 aspects: 1 was the reverse gear and 2nd is the ability to stand up in even the smallest one. The PA provides that stability but the weight of the thing puts me off.

As for the reverse gear, I find out in the bay, I never needed a reverse gear and the only time I find I wish I had a reverse gear was when i was bream fishing. One instance was when I was approaching this nice looking rockbank with an overhanging tree and would have liked to hold position 20 metres out so as not to spook the fish but the wind was blowing me head in to the tree. Reverse gear would have been handy. The other instance was fishing in a marina type area where the bank is made of a long rock wall and there were few small L-shaped jetties along the rock bank and I could see that the bream preferred the areas of the rock wall which were "sheltered" by the jetty. Casting in there from outside the jetty opening was easy enough, unless the wind pushed you in OR if your lure got snagged on the rockbank inside the sheltered area. There wasn't enough room to turn the yak around so a reverse gear would have been handy BUT the water depth was too shallow for the Propel to work anyway. The ping pong bat idea is the best so far I think.

Stability, I'm hoping it won't be long before Hobie comes up with a yak that is as stable as the PA but isn't as heavy and doesn't need to be as long or spacious. Just something I can occassionally stand up in and stretch the legs.

[rawprawn]

I can see how reverse would be useful. I often fish areas where I’m casting towards the shore (overhanging trees logs etc). I’m often found with the paddle under one arm and a rod in the other trying to back away from the bank either due to wind or hooking a fish.

For me it would be great to have reverse however I also fish very shallow flats so have avoided propulsion systems that hang under the yak.

[justcrusin]

Stability, I'm hoping it won't be long before Hobie comes up with a yak that is as stable as the PA but isn't as heavy and doesn't need to be as long or spacious. Just something I can occassionally stand up in and stretch the legs.

Outback mate every bit as stable.

Haven't seen a native craft in the flesh so can't comment, but hobie reverse is easy put the fins in backwards. I have done it while fishing structure in current. Steering is backwards and hard to get used to but it works well.

Cheers Dave

[greenfish]

Hi all, I have owned a NW Propel 12 for some time now and I'm hoping to be able to offer some insight into these quite unique boats.
Firstly there shallow water ability. Being a rigid pedal set up it must be said anything less than 300mm of water and the skeg will bump bottom.
To lift the pedal mech' does only take 20 seconds once familiar with the operation. Don't worry about bumping the drive system on rock or sand -it's SOLID!
With propeller up the craft is easily paddled with single paddle,just keep the rudder to one side and paddle accordingly on the one side. Its a great hull to paddle!
If its too shallow for the drive system simply pull it up and use paddle as a push pole, it's no biggie!
Reverse capability should not be understated! This is the one single standout feature that puts it in front of the Hobie drive system OUCH!
It is very functional and will definitely assist the lure caster in gaining and holding a better position. The pedal mechanism acts as a keel and stops the yak from spinning or blowing around too. This became obvious when fishing with a mate in a Hobie pedal who kept disappearing from the drift as a light breeze kept blowing him around.
The propeller drive systwm copes well with weed too, it just chops it up. even when wrapped around the skegs good forward motion is still possible. Not sure how the Hobie Mirage drive copes with weed??!!
You won't use the Propel 12 in the bay. Too risky! Its not scuppared, it is designed for quiet waters, lakes, rivers and sheltered bays, it excels in these locations. The Hobie is a far better choice out there for sure. Not forgetting that Native watercraft has the Mariner model, which is a sit on and still maintains the pedal drive system.
Stability is superb when seated. Standing is something that is done with experience and acquired skill, the same as standing up in any other kayak.
Certainly it feels as though the better standing position is where the seat is situated, by un-clipping front seat braces(2seconds) the seat can be pushed back a bit and a better ballance point is found.
The propel 12 is compact (small) easily carried and lifted onto roof racks by one person. The propel14 could be a better option for carrying extra gear and possibly more stable, although the compactness of the 12 is great.
Things to think about are product back up by importers and wholsalers, this is a new craft and certainly spare parts and accessories are only just beginning to filter through. Hobie are renowned for excellent product back up, something that is a major plus to any product line.
I could go on (already have lol) I'm reluctant to offer but if anyone wants to have ago with mine, they can pm me and arrange a time I can meet them at Lake Lyell( Lithgow west of blue mtns) or lake Wallace (Wallerawang) if it suits.
..............Alex

[YakCult]

Hi all, I have owned a NW Propel 12 for some time now and I'm hoping to be able to offer some insight into these quite unique boats.
..............................Alex

Many thanks for your report, Alex - most interesting!

[AndyC]

Thanks Greenfish. They certainly seem like an interesting craft. The concept of the propeller drive system is good old fashioned known technology, so I wouldn't be influenced by any suggestion that it is too complicated. There are an awful lot of outboard legs out there, working and lasting very well!

I am always a bit fascinated by the debate about operating in very shallow water. I think if the water was sufficiently shallow, I'd be inclined to get out and walk ..... which is precisely what I do very often, when I am trout fishing.

I reckon too, that to have some variety in propulsion systems (with their attendant good and bad points) is great. I don't believe that there is only one 'top dog' propulsion system. Its horses for courses and I hope we will see the range of choice broadening further, over time. I recall reading about a pedal system that used augers as propellers, housed inside channels within the hull and that looked very interesting as the propulsion system wasn't exposed.

The other point that you touched on .... that standing in a yak is more about practice and skill, rather than the stability of the craft alone, seems to make plenty of sense too. You see video of peoples in other parts of the world, hunting from canoes that look no more stable than a modern yak. But they seem just as 'at home' standing or seated. I have seen enough seated paddlers fall out (even from an Outback) to suspect that the stability of the boat isn't the primary factor in staying aboard.

Anyhow, really just wanted to thank you for your unbiased and insightful input.

Cheers,

AndyC.

[rawprawn]

I am always a bit fascinated by the debate about operating in very shallow water. I think if the water was sufficiently shallow, I'd be inclined to get out and walk ..... which is precisely what I do very often, when I am trout fishing.

I find offering a lower profile especially in shallow water can get better results. Also I fish large open boggy flats at times and to walk them would be onerous and cause unnecessary noise and disturbance to the water. The best way to fish them I have found is seated in the yak.

[AndyC]

G'day Greg,

Point taken, Mate, about the boggy areas. There are certainly plenty of cases where wading is, for one reason or another, either impractical or downright dangerous. I remember sinking into a mud bog on one occasions and thinking my number was up. Wasn't yakking on that occasion.

I understand your point too, about keeping a low profile. All good, common sense stuff and very valid.

Cheers,

AndyC

[vertigrator]

The Hobie mirage drive fins make a brilliant keel when drifting. Especially the turbo fins. but the trick is you need to have the fins in the straight down position. when you have them up against the hull then you do drift a lot faster, since there's no longer any resistence.

My fins coped well with piles of strap weed yesterday. Though when paddling through some in shallow water I forgot to strap the fins up and after a tough slog I realised that the fins had gone down and I was dragging the fins through the weeds as I paddled . (a good way to work up a sweat when you're in layers of winter gear )

The reverse gear would be a brilliant feature for sure.