Youtube links mod attention!

[goanywhere]

And miss out on customer service like this... no way!

[kayakone]

Goanywhere

Yeah, I struggle with this stuff too. They (the IT generation) assume prior knowledge and familiarity with techno terms, so don't offer any instructions/glossary for '5 year olds'. Is it any wonder we struggle? It's a common malaise of the IT/internet generation, where contributors assume (or ignore) that all people do not understand their terminology.

I could offer the same standard of advice for some of them on a few subjects, and I think I could confound them, but that is'nt the aim if stating a point of view or providing info. I'd rather assume no knowledge at all, if I really wanted to get my message across to all readers.

Therefore I would start with a basic explanation/glossary from first base. I think this prior knowledge/inadequate definition thing affects older people more (not Dodge - he seems to be a whizz).

Trevor

[kraley]

Yeah, I struggle with this stuff too.

no shit. Actually, I think you would find it quite easy to boost your e-literacy if you are willing to put in a little effort.

They (the IT generation) assume prior knowledge and familiarity with techno terms, so don't offer any instructions/glossary for '5 year olds'. Is it any wonder we struggle?

You should make an effort to become minimally literate in the technologies you use. Its been around for ages now. I would suggest the w3c primers on basic web stuff:
http://www.w3schools.com/web/default.asp

if you can get thru that, I highly recommend doing the tutorials at code academy. http://www.codeacademy.com

Think of it as a basic survival course for living in the 21st century.

There is a digital divide, but it doesn't have much to do with age, its about becoming familiar with technology in a way that lets you control it, not vice versa.


Its true that people comfortable with technology have issues interacting with those who merely consume it. I have heard the term 'normals' used derogatorily to describe people that don't even try to understand technology. I prefer to think of it as a conflict between those that are called Digital Immigrants (people like yourself that just want to use technology) with Digital Natives (those that have competencies in the creative and technical tools used to power the digital age.

It's a common malaise of the IT/internet generation, where contributors assume (or ignore) that all people do not understand their terminology.

is it really hubris to find it frustrating that otherwise literate people can't recognise a pattern where its obvious that ampersands are used as a delimiter everything to the right of it was extraneous? See how different it is between us? I don't understand how people who can't do this can actually feed themselves. You see it as greek. That's the problem.

I could offer the same standard of advice for some of them on a few subjects, and I think I could confound them, but that is'nt the aim if stating a point of view or providing info. I'd rather assume no knowledge at all, if I really wanted to get my message across to all readers.

yeah, but I'm not trying fly a plane or any of that crap. This is web technology 101 - if you aren't going to make an effort - why should everyone keep enabling you? YOu have access at your fingertips to technical resources that couldn't even be dreamt of 10 years ago.

Use google, try to understand it - THEN ask for help - you'll get a totally different response.

Therefore I would start with a basic explanation/glossary from first base. I think this prior knowledge/inadequate definition thing affects older people more (not Dodge - he seems to be a whizz).

Dodge isn't afraid to learn, explore, ask questions. He isn't afraid to break things. He has a hacker mentality. That's why you consider him a 'whiz'.

[Ado]

I have to agree with Kraley on this. People do try to help, but (as with all things) assume a certain level of knowledge as a starting point. Everyone does on whatever topic is being discussed if life. The alternative, assuming a zero base knowledge, would require an extremely lengthy response each time and runs the real risk of sounding patronising.

If someone walked up to you in a climbing area and asked you about a climb would you say 'easily protected with Friends' or would you say,

'Climbing protection is what we carry with us to place in the climb and clip our running ropes through as we lead. This prevents us falling to the ground if we fall. Friends are spring loaded camming devices made by Wild Country. There are other spring loaded camming devices made by other manufacturers that are called other things, but the group terminology for all these devices is Friends. Friends are used in parallel sided cracks where other protection won't work. You need to be very careful when placing them because if the crack is too thin or too wide, or not parallel then they can be ineffective. The climb you are asking about has a lot of parallel sided cracks. Therefore, if you have Friends, or similar spring loaded camming devices, then you place a lot of these and will not fall very far if you fall. If you don't have and Friends then then you may find it difficult to place other forms of climbing protection and therefore you face longer falls that could be more dangerous.'

I'm guessing the answer is the former. Why? Because you assume thast because they are in a climbing area (forum) that they know something about climbing (internet), and because they are asking about a particular climb (imbedding URLs) then they are not just some bumbly stumbling in off the street. You accept that that's an assumption on your part and are more than willing to provide more information if they ask something like 'What are Friends'? It doesn't make you an elitist, it just makes you pragmatic.

[ArWeTherYet]

Yay! I know what to do now, I'd given up.

Trev I'm with you, computer processioning makes no sense to me. I had the same problem with spelling in school, they use to keep me in at lunch time and after school and occasionally beat me, but did no good.....thank god for spell check.
The tutorials make no sense to me either, they may as well be written in Chinese.
I just keep on hitting buttons or googling till I find the right one or just give up.
I've been doing a bit of DIY audio work and have the same problem there, people try to explain it and I just dont get it, so I ask for a diagram and hey presto I understand what to do. Same with road directions, if someone tries to explain where to go I get lost, if I have a map I'm fine.

[kayakone]

Firstly a genuine thank you to both Ken and Adrian for trying to understand where non-internet like myself are at, and for making a genuine attempt to help. If either of you were to ask me for an explanation about something I actually know something about (that you do not), my method would probably be along the lines of Adrian's lengthy explanation of the climbing protection. But that's just me, and I try to never assume prior knowledge when passing on information. There is of course a risk of information overload, and as Adrian says appearing patronising.

I will try Ken's suggestions to pick up on computer/internet knowledge.

But at the moment I am with Paul (AWTY). I will make a more considered and non alcoholic reply, but I believe the following is a truism.....

Different people learn by different methods, or combinations of methods (different sides of the brain/history/upbringing). Some learn by only one method, and this must be a challenge for teachers (interesting to hear from Scater, and other professional teachers, on this subject). My (lay) observations are that people learn by:

1. Hearing
2. Reading
3. Looking at diagrams/illustrations (add videos)
4. Observation (e.g. a child)
5. Doing

So till at least until tomorrow, thank you and good night.

Trevor

[Barrabundy]

I see the issue discussed about a bit more superficially. I compare it to people knowing how to drive and people who actually understand what happens under the bonnet. I understand what happens under the bonnet (a little) but realise it doesn't make me a better driver than someone who doesn't. I also compare my IT attitude to someone who jus wants to dive a car and doesn't care about how it all works.

We adopted technology very early in our business but I'd have to say my desire to learn how it all works has t been that great. AKFF, now that's a different kettle of fish altogether, I spend so much time on here that I'd have to question my mental capacity if I hadn't picked up a few tricks incidentally.

Anyway, i used the YouTube embed button successfully last night after reading one of the tips here. Thanks for the tip, it wasn't difficult at all but I would never have thought to do it that way myself.

Does anything I just typed make any sense as I'm just sitting here in the dark tapping away and have lost track of why I even started.